Paul Henebury responds to some thoughtful questions regarding the relationship between the Church and Israel. Read the questions and comments at the end as well.
I have lately had the pleasure of doing some theological fencing with a good Christian man named Andrew Suttles. Andrew has raised a number of pertinent questions about Dispensational interpretations of Israel and the Church which I would like to address in this (and another post).
Once again I want to state that I think “Dispensationalist” is a lousy and inaccurate name for this type of theology. Firstly because dispensations are largely theologically mute. Secondly, because the real crux of the matter are the Biblical Covenants!
I hope this response will be of help in clarifying my understanding of this issue. We shall begin with Paul’s use of “Israel” and “Jacob” in Romans 9-11 and go from there. This is not meant to be comprehensive, but it is quite detailed and should suit its purpose...keep reading
Saturday, October 23, 2010
Thursday, October 14, 2010
The ENPI theory
Recently, the Fulfilled Prophecy website moved away from the ENPI theory.
Kudos to them for taking an objective stance! However, unlike FP some haven’t let it go and are reviewing their understanding of the Bible in innovative ways in an effort to keep the ENP viable.
Changing how we understand Scripture for the sake of the ENP is like the tail wagging the dog. Midst means middle – the middle of the week has come and gone. Even if we take the 4th year of the seven as being the midst, none of the dynamics of the seals of Revelation are apparent. Theorizing that the seven-year covenant is different to Daniel’s 70th week is another attempt to keep the theory alive that has no biblical justification. In fact the ENP has failed to meet prophetic expectations.
I’ve also seen a few statements regarding pretribulationists made by these people. One is that pretribbers risk falling prey to the Mark of the beast because they will suddenly find themselves at the Abomination of Desolation period and won’t recognize the fact. Thus they may take the Mark of the Beast unawares.
Let me see now, there’s something about the subject of worshiping and a certain Mark somewhere…Rev 4:10; 9:20; 11:1; 22:8-9. And this looks fairly important…Rev 13:8-12.
Pretribbers have also been accused of not watching because they expect to be raptured away. I believe the ENP theory has already done the pre-trib prophetic circles. Everyone is watching Europe and the Middle East and just about everyone interested in End Times Prophecy knows about JS. It’s not exactly a secret.
Another one is that fear drives belief in a pre-trib rapture and pretribbers will fail to deal with the tribulation when it occurs because they are unprepared. Now that makes a whole lot of sense!
Possibly one of the most bizarre allegations I’ve read is that Tim LaHaye hijacked Marv Rosenthal’s rapture view using the Left Behind series. Apparently this was aided by the creation of the Pre-Trib Research Center. I suppose there couldn’t be any other explanation.
Partial quote:
“They also successfully stopped the spread of the pre wrath position. It also placed prophecy in the entertainment playground sector of religion. In your typical Christian Church Library prophetic FICTION has replaced the scholarly tomes of previous generations. Prophecy study was successfully dumbed (sic) down.”
First of all people who denigrate pretribulationism generally go after either Tim LaHaye or Hal Lindsey. This causes me to wonder if that is the extent of their research into pre-trib. Griping about LB fiction isn’t exactly an academic exercise. Secondly, “scholarly tomes of previous generations” would have to exclude the new pre-wrath view.
I don’t presume to judge Tim LaHaye’s motivations. The Research Center was inaugurated to defend both pretribulationism and premillennialism. Long before I was interested in the rapture topic, my passion was studying the debate between preterists and premillennialists. Interestingly, guys like preterist Gary Demar opined that the Research Center was set up to counter preterism.
Here’s a clue – yes it was. And the problem is…? There’s a Post-Trib Research Center, several preterist organizations and even Prewrath Rapture Dot Com - to name only one among many pre-wrath sites! There are even some well-regarded pre-wrath novels out there with probably more to come. And didn’t Van Kampen pen one as well?
Some time ago prewrather Ryan Habbena wrote a book called “The parable of the Fig Tree”. His association with pastor Bob Dewaay and pastor Eric Douma led to conversations about rapture timing. Douma leaned somewhat towards pre-wrath and Dewaay was a rapture timing agnostic.
Dewaay and Douma took up the challenge and researched. The result of that study is presented HERE and via a previous post. The Left Behind series was not on their list of theological notes and references.
There are a number of possible dynamics as to why pre-wrath hasn’t kicked off as well as some hoped. I’ve personally noticed a trend towards posttribulationism. My experience since studying this subject is that pretribulationism is commonly derided. To blame LaHaye’s fiction and pre-trib sabotage is myopic.
Kudos to them for taking an objective stance! However, unlike FP some haven’t let it go and are reviewing their understanding of the Bible in innovative ways in an effort to keep the ENP viable.
Changing how we understand Scripture for the sake of the ENP is like the tail wagging the dog. Midst means middle – the middle of the week has come and gone. Even if we take the 4th year of the seven as being the midst, none of the dynamics of the seals of Revelation are apparent. Theorizing that the seven-year covenant is different to Daniel’s 70th week is another attempt to keep the theory alive that has no biblical justification. In fact the ENP has failed to meet prophetic expectations.
I’ve also seen a few statements regarding pretribulationists made by these people. One is that pretribbers risk falling prey to the Mark of the beast because they will suddenly find themselves at the Abomination of Desolation period and won’t recognize the fact. Thus they may take the Mark of the Beast unawares.
Let me see now, there’s something about the subject of worshiping and a certain Mark somewhere…Rev 4:10; 9:20; 11:1; 22:8-9. And this looks fairly important…Rev 13:8-12.
Pretribbers have also been accused of not watching because they expect to be raptured away. I believe the ENP theory has already done the pre-trib prophetic circles. Everyone is watching Europe and the Middle East and just about everyone interested in End Times Prophecy knows about JS. It’s not exactly a secret.
Another one is that fear drives belief in a pre-trib rapture and pretribbers will fail to deal with the tribulation when it occurs because they are unprepared. Now that makes a whole lot of sense!
Possibly one of the most bizarre allegations I’ve read is that Tim LaHaye hijacked Marv Rosenthal’s rapture view using the Left Behind series. Apparently this was aided by the creation of the Pre-Trib Research Center. I suppose there couldn’t be any other explanation.
Partial quote:
“They also successfully stopped the spread of the pre wrath position. It also placed prophecy in the entertainment playground sector of religion. In your typical Christian Church Library prophetic FICTION has replaced the scholarly tomes of previous generations. Prophecy study was successfully dumbed (sic) down.”
First of all people who denigrate pretribulationism generally go after either Tim LaHaye or Hal Lindsey. This causes me to wonder if that is the extent of their research into pre-trib. Griping about LB fiction isn’t exactly an academic exercise. Secondly, “scholarly tomes of previous generations” would have to exclude the new pre-wrath view.
I don’t presume to judge Tim LaHaye’s motivations. The Research Center was inaugurated to defend both pretribulationism and premillennialism. Long before I was interested in the rapture topic, my passion was studying the debate between preterists and premillennialists. Interestingly, guys like preterist Gary Demar opined that the Research Center was set up to counter preterism.
Here’s a clue – yes it was. And the problem is…? There’s a Post-Trib Research Center, several preterist organizations and even Prewrath Rapture Dot Com - to name only one among many pre-wrath sites! There are even some well-regarded pre-wrath novels out there with probably more to come. And didn’t Van Kampen pen one as well?
Some time ago prewrather Ryan Habbena wrote a book called “The parable of the Fig Tree”. His association with pastor Bob Dewaay and pastor Eric Douma led to conversations about rapture timing. Douma leaned somewhat towards pre-wrath and Dewaay was a rapture timing agnostic.
Dewaay and Douma took up the challenge and researched. The result of that study is presented HERE and via a previous post. The Left Behind series was not on their list of theological notes and references.
There are a number of possible dynamics as to why pre-wrath hasn’t kicked off as well as some hoped. I’ve personally noticed a trend towards posttribulationism. My experience since studying this subject is that pretribulationism is commonly derided. To blame LaHaye’s fiction and pre-trib sabotage is myopic.
Sunday, October 3, 2010
More on Steve Wohlberg's "End Time Delusions"
Some time ago I wrote about Adventist Steve Wohlberg's book "End Time Delusions". Mr Wohlberg has dedicated a fair amount of resources attacking the "futurist/premillennial" view and in particular, dispensationalism and pretribulationalism. His book can still be found circulating in Christian book shops.
The Berean Call makes a few succinct comments on some of the book's problems HERE
The Berean Call makes a few succinct comments on some of the book's problems HERE
Friday, September 3, 2010
Worst time ever...
In This Study, Dr Alan Cole discusses the pre-wrath (and post-trib) view of the day of the Lord in Joel 2&3. One point of interest to me is the evaluation of Dr Charles Cooper’s challenge to Renald Showers’ view on the proof of the overlapping between the great tribulation and the day of the Lord based on Joel 2:1.
Dr Showers contends that the phrase “there has never been anything like it” refers to the day of the Lord. He then uses other references such as Matt 24:21 to argue that, because there can’t be two uniquely worst days in history, the two periods must be referring to the same timeframe or at least overlap.
Dr Cooper counters that the phrase “there has never been anything like it” refers to the people and not to the day of the Lord.
He makes a valid point.
But what he doesn’t do is refute Dr Showers’ over-all contention. Here’s the problem as I see it – Matt 24:21 asserts that the Great Tribulation is the worst time in history and that no other time will be as harsh:
…for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. (Mat 24:21 NASB)
That time will be so bad that:
And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short. (Mat 24:22 NASB)
Both pre-wrath and post-trib proponents divide the great tribulation and the day of the Lord into two periods which don’t overlap. The obvious problem then is that any period following the great tribulation cannot be as severe.
It is suggested that Matt 24 is speaking of Satan’s wrath. By implication, then, these are two different subjects which consequently allows for two unparalleled periods. But is that really the case or is it circular reasoning?
No distinction is ever made between the great tribulation and God’s wrath nor is the tribulation ever scripturally restricted to Satan’s persecution – it is an assumption used to support an expectation. Pretribbers hold that Satan’s wrath, and various other calamities are extensions of God’s wrath and judgments (Ezekiel 14:21; Revelation 6:8). Furthermore, the phrase “since the beginning of the world” incorporates Noah’s flood.
The fact that the GT is shortened - otherwise no life would be saved - indicates an all-inclusive global condition which also embraces unbelievers. Christ states that all lives would be lost if there was no intervention to shorten that period. The question then is - if the day of the Lord occurs after those days have been shortened then what happens to life on earth?
The Great Tribulation Period is cut short for the sake of the elect (the Church).
The reason given by the Lord for this shortening cannot be logically used in reference to the church’s rapture and/or resurrection. If every last Christian was martyred they’d still be raised up. Nor can it be used to argue for a GT lasting less than the consistently prophesied three-and-a-half years.
We know the Antichrist has been given authority to act for 42 months (Rev 13:5); that he gathers the armies at Rev 16 and martyred saints are raised after the beast has been bound (Rev 20:4). We also know that the Antichrist is destroyed (not hand cuffed) at Christ’s coming (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 19:20).
At the time the Antichrist has gathered the armies he is still within his 42 months because he is using his authority to accomplish that at the 6th bowl. His time expires at Rev 19 which is post trumpets and bowls. Hence the trumpets and bowls are contained within the GT period.
Therefore, while Dr Showers’ argument in the Joel 2 case may be questioned, his over-all premise is on solid foundations.
Dr Showers contends that the phrase “there has never been anything like it” refers to the day of the Lord. He then uses other references such as Matt 24:21 to argue that, because there can’t be two uniquely worst days in history, the two periods must be referring to the same timeframe or at least overlap.
Dr Cooper counters that the phrase “there has never been anything like it” refers to the people and not to the day of the Lord.
He makes a valid point.
But what he doesn’t do is refute Dr Showers’ over-all contention. Here’s the problem as I see it – Matt 24:21 asserts that the Great Tribulation is the worst time in history and that no other time will be as harsh:
…for at that time there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will be. (Mat 24:21 NASB)
That time will be so bad that:
And unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short. (Mat 24:22 NASB)
Both pre-wrath and post-trib proponents divide the great tribulation and the day of the Lord into two periods which don’t overlap. The obvious problem then is that any period following the great tribulation cannot be as severe.
It is suggested that Matt 24 is speaking of Satan’s wrath. By implication, then, these are two different subjects which consequently allows for two unparalleled periods. But is that really the case or is it circular reasoning?
No distinction is ever made between the great tribulation and God’s wrath nor is the tribulation ever scripturally restricted to Satan’s persecution – it is an assumption used to support an expectation. Pretribbers hold that Satan’s wrath, and various other calamities are extensions of God’s wrath and judgments (Ezekiel 14:21; Revelation 6:8). Furthermore, the phrase “since the beginning of the world” incorporates Noah’s flood.
The fact that the GT is shortened - otherwise no life would be saved - indicates an all-inclusive global condition which also embraces unbelievers. Christ states that all lives would be lost if there was no intervention to shorten that period. The question then is - if the day of the Lord occurs after those days have been shortened then what happens to life on earth?
The Great Tribulation Period is cut short for the sake of the elect (the Church).
The reason given by the Lord for this shortening cannot be logically used in reference to the church’s rapture and/or resurrection. If every last Christian was martyred they’d still be raised up. Nor can it be used to argue for a GT lasting less than the consistently prophesied three-and-a-half years.
We know the Antichrist has been given authority to act for 42 months (Rev 13:5); that he gathers the armies at Rev 16 and martyred saints are raised after the beast has been bound (Rev 20:4). We also know that the Antichrist is destroyed (not hand cuffed) at Christ’s coming (2 Thess 2:8; Rev 19:20).
At the time the Antichrist has gathered the armies he is still within his 42 months because he is using his authority to accomplish that at the 6th bowl. His time expires at Rev 19 which is post trumpets and bowls. Hence the trumpets and bowls are contained within the GT period.
Therefore, while Dr Showers’ argument in the Joel 2 case may be questioned, his over-all premise is on solid foundations.
Wednesday, September 1, 2010
THE ISRAEL OF GOD
Persistent efforts to explain “the Israel of God” in Gal 6:16 as a reference to the church defy overwhelming grammatical, exegetical, and theological evidence that the expression refers to ethnic Israel. Among contemporary interpreters, three views of the phrase’s meaning emerge: (1) “The Israel of God” is the church; (2) “The Israel of God” is the remnant of Israelites in the church; and (3) “The Israel of God” is the future redeemed nation. View 1 suffers from the grammatical and syntactical weakness of endorsing the meaning of the Greek particle kai as “namely,” a rare usage of that word. Exegetically, View 1 is also weak in choosing to define “Israel” as the church, a usage that appears nowhere else in biblical literature. View 1 also is lacking theologically because the name “Israel” is not applied to the church at any time in history until A.D. 160. Views 2 and 3 coincide grammatically and syntactically, exegetically, and theologically in positive support for those views by taking kai in its frequent continuative or copulative sense and by understanding “Israel” as a reference to ethnic Israel. View 3 shows its exegetical superiority to View 2 through the six points of Peter Richardson, which develop the ethnic nature of “Israel,” an d by recalling Paul’s eschatological outlook for ethnic Israel in Rom 11:26. Theologically, View 3 jibes with Paul’s teaching about two kinds of Israelites, the believing ones and the unbelieving ones. Those who persist in advocating View 1 present a classic case in tendentious exegesis...keep reading
Thursday, August 12, 2010
Mike Vlatch has some new thought-provoking articles on his website TheologicalStudies.org.
Hebrews and Eschatological Systems by Brian Colmery (pdf) Does Hebrews really support a non-premillennial eschatology?
The Kingdom Program in Matthew's Gospel by Michael J. Vlach (pdf)
The Church: A Search for Definition by Erik Swanson (pdf). A comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Views of the Church
Nations in the Eternal State by Andrew Kim (pdf) See how God's plan for Eternity includes literal nations
Hebrews and Eschatological Systems by Brian Colmery (pdf) Does Hebrews really support a non-premillennial eschatology?
The Kingdom Program in Matthew's Gospel by Michael J. Vlach (pdf)
The Church: A Search for Definition by Erik Swanson (pdf). A comparison of Covenant and Dispensational Views of the Church
Nations in the Eternal State by Andrew Kim (pdf) See how God's plan for Eternity includes literal nations
Wednesday, July 28, 2010
Answers to the 95 Theses against Dispensationalism
The folks at NiceneCouncil.com got together at one stage and formulated 95 Theses Against Dispensationalism. Among the scholars were, allegedly, some ex-Dispensationalists.
Here's one reason they give for going through the exercise:
Therefore, because we believe that dispensationalism has at least crippled the Church in her duty of proclaiming the gospel and discipling the nations, and out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed in a series of videos written and produced by NiceneCouncil.com under the title The Late Great Planet Church. And as iron sharpens iron we request that every Christian, congregation, and denomination discuss and debate these issues. By the grace of our great Sovereign let us engage in this debate with an open mind and an open Bible. Like the Bereans nearly two thousand years ago, let us “search the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things are so.”
There have been a number of great responses by dispies to the 95 Theses. The problem is that they are scattered here and there in various scholarly publications.
However, I'm most impressed with Dr Paul Henebury's contra-efforts and have been following them since he began to address them. He has now completed the work and made it readily available on his site in an organized format.
You can read it HERE.
Most enlightening are some of the readers' challenges to Paul's observations and how he deftly deals with them.
Here's one reason they give for going through the exercise:
Therefore, because we believe that dispensationalism has at least crippled the Church in her duty of proclaiming the gospel and discipling the nations, and out of love for the truth and the desire to bring it to light, the following propositions will be discussed in a series of videos written and produced by NiceneCouncil.com under the title The Late Great Planet Church. And as iron sharpens iron we request that every Christian, congregation, and denomination discuss and debate these issues. By the grace of our great Sovereign let us engage in this debate with an open mind and an open Bible. Like the Bereans nearly two thousand years ago, let us “search the Scriptures daily, to see whether these things are so.”
There have been a number of great responses by dispies to the 95 Theses. The problem is that they are scattered here and there in various scholarly publications.
However, I'm most impressed with Dr Paul Henebury's contra-efforts and have been following them since he began to address them. He has now completed the work and made it readily available on his site in an organized format.
You can read it HERE.
Most enlightening are some of the readers' challenges to Paul's observations and how he deftly deals with them.
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)
