tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post681473306077983930..comments2023-11-01T07:34:22.846-07:00Comments on Thoughts on Eschatology: Does Historic Premillennialism trump Dispensationalism?Alf Cengiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-32923426365116971412018-04-07T09:35:55.679-07:002018-04-07T09:35:55.679-07:00Glad you see this conversation not going anywhere....Glad you see this conversation not going anywhere.<br /><br />And since this is my blog, I reserve the right to respond.<br /><br />The Talmud isn't the issue because it doesn't drive anti-Semitism. It is just another excuse to attack the Jew like the "Protocols" etc. Wake up.<br /><br />Yes, Israel is bad. But it isn't as bad on Human Rights issues as some would have it. It is far far better than many other nations! Just on that point it ought to be supported. <br /><br />Now pay close attention:<br /><br />Israel denies its savior and will be judged. Most other nations also deny the LORD as well. God decides the possession of the land and the punishment. He has also used other nations to punish Israel...and then God punished them as well. <br /><br />I will honor God's word regarding Israel as per Gen 12:3 and a bunch of other texts in the OT. Especially Gen 12:3.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-42665382568241594522018-04-07T09:23:16.457-07:002018-04-07T09:23:16.457-07:00That's fine to be sick of it, but the fact is,...That's fine to be sick of it, but the fact is, as Rabbi Michael Rodkinson once put it, the matter is "an interesting one to every Christian, What is the Talmud? … [It] is the written form of that which, in the time of Jesus, was called the Traditions of the Elders, and to which he makes frequent allusions." Were the Jews not crushed by the armies of Rome and exiled for clinging to it and rejecting their Messiah, as Christ foretold in the Olivet Discourse? The answer is, of course, yes.<br /><br />You needn't reference individual incidents of Jewish persecution as if I deny it. I acknowledge and condemn it in no uncertain terms. Most Jews probably have no idea about the filth in the Talmud. So to hold them responsible for it would be ludicrous. But it was not I scattered the Jews among the nations. I also acknowledge that their ingathering is a fulfillment of prophecy. However, their strife will continue until they accept Christ. Surely you do not deny this.<br /><br />You may support Israeli state if you wish, I will not. <br /><br />But I see this conversation heading no where at this point so I bid you farewell. BlessingsJ-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-25685478057338452012018-04-07T09:18:12.309-07:002018-04-07T09:18:12.309-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.J-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-73220182375491093692018-04-07T06:15:12.814-07:002018-04-07T06:15:12.814-07:00J-Victus, let me be blunt here. I'm tired hear...J-Victus, let me be blunt here. I'm tired hearing about the Talmud. Whenever someone mentions it I know where the conversation is headed. People tell me that obedience to the Talmud is a reason why Jews have been persecuted through the centuries. <br /><br />Nakba didn't happen because of the Talmud. That Holocaust survivor who was recently killed in France wasn't killed because of the Talmud. It was plain old hatred of the Jew.<br /><br />It would be a great idea to stop funding to Israel and the Palestinians. But for different reasons you might have. Funding to Israel carries strings and baggage. Funding to the Palestinians supports terrorism. <br /><br />Again, obedience to God promised enjoyment of the land. Disobedience didn't always mean dispossession. God promised (as per verses cited earlier and others) that Israel would be in possession of the land in preparation for eventual judgment (see Zechariah). This fact alone supports the legitimacy of Israel in the land, quite aside from all the secular reasons. <br /><br />The whole point of my original post is that people like Blomberg and Burge bear false witness to an admittedly imperfect nation by unfairly demonizing it. Moreover they deny clear biblical promises that Israel will be restored to God. <br /><br />You seem to think that modern Israel is an oppressive apartheid state undeserving of support. As I said above, it isn't perfect and it is in unbelief but its Human Rights scores well above surrounding nations. Sadly the Palestinian church spreads anti-Israel propaganda. See the links I provided in previous response and below.<br /><br />http://nationalpost.com/opinion/vivian-bercovici-no-country-would-tolerate-what-hamas-is-doing-at-israels-border<br /><br />Deconstructing apartheid: <br /><br />http://www.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=7&x_issue=69&x_article=2197<br /><br />http://www.zeteo316.com/blessing-cursing-israel/<br /><br />http://www.israelvideonetwork.com/1-million-simple-arguments-that-will-change-how-you-look-at-israel/<br />Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-67451815563308353822018-04-06T20:10:21.161-07:002018-04-06T20:10:21.161-07:00I disagree with nothing you said, and acknowledge ...<br />I disagree with nothing you said, and acknowledge that Christians are safer in Israel than any of the Muslim nations. The Jews have a perpetual, but conditional claim to that land. And so they have returned to the Holy Land, as prophesied (though it was no miracle, as a look at the compositions of the armed forces in the 1947-8 War shows that while it is true that five separate armies attack Israel, the Israelis had over twice as many troops in total). But they have returned in disobedience, without accepting their Messiah. This is why there is constant strife. One day, they will fulfill Paul's promise in Romans 11 and they will be there in peace and legitimately:<br />“For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?”<br /><br />But to repeat, just because their return is prophesied does not mean we have to support the Israeli government with billions of dollars in aid (I oppose aid to Muslim countries as well), and a diplomatic shield in the UN (one may complain about how the GA chastises Israel, but that is irrelevant as long as a UNSC veto exists). The State of Israel is an apostate entity created by atheistic Jews. Interestingly, those Haredi Jewish communities that most stringently follow the Talmud would agree with me, as the Talmud states that the Jews cannot have a legitimate State in the Holy Land until the Messiah comes (though some have now accepted the de facto existence of the Jewish State), the only difference being that you and I recognize that their Messiah is Jesus, whom their intellectual ancestors so bitterly rejected.<br /><br />As you say, and as God said, He is judging Israel for its disbelief using its neighbors. The only way out is to obey, reject the misanthropic literature of the Talmud, written by those who are to blame for the exile in the first place, and accept Christ. This will happen in its own time. If pointing out that the current Jewish possession of the land is Biblically illegitimate (albeit prophesied), while asserting how it can be made legitimate, makes me an anti-Zionist, then I guess I am that. I would like to be a fervent Zionist, and would much prefer them to turn away from the modern-day Pharisees, the Rabbis. Christ warned his Jewish contemporaries as much:<br />===Now when His disciples had come to the other side, they had forgotten to take bread. Then Jesus said to them: “Take heed and beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Sadducees.”<br />And they reasoned among themselves, saying: “It is because we have taken no bread.” But Jesus, being aware of it, said to them: “Oh, you of little faith, why do you reason among yourselves because you have brought no bread?... How is it you do not understand that I did not speak to you concerning bread?—but to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”<br />Then they understood that He did not tell them to beware of the leaven of bread, but of the doctrine of the Pharisees and Sadducees.====<br /><br />The Jews have suffered terribly for following the the teachings of the Pharisees. They must throw off the yoke of that absurd and evil tradition if they are ever to have peace. And they will. Paul has made that clear.<br /><br /><br />In the mean time, the secular State of Israel does not require nor does it deserve the aid of the United States taxpayer (again, nor does any Muslim country, or any country really). Israel has dozens of nuclear weapons and the ability to use them against the most of the Eastern Hemisphere even if all of Israel is afire. The leaders of Israel's enemies are violent radicals, but they are not suicidal (their foot soldiers may be, but not them), and have the same urge to self-preserve as we all do. No nation-state will dare to attack Israel as long as their second-strike capability remains intact.<br /><br />BlessingsJ-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-5083344845219294862018-04-06T19:21:34.939-07:002018-04-06T19:21:34.939-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.J-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-83771585736697059352018-04-06T06:07:03.071-07:002018-04-06T06:07:03.071-07:00J Victus, thanks for commenting.
Have you ever re...J Victus, thanks for commenting.<br /><br />Have you ever read the Hamas charter? Have you listened to what Iran and Turkey say about Israel? Do you really think it has anything to do with the Talmud or the alleged IDF maniacal viciousness? Do you know what Nakba really means and how and why it began? <br /><br />Have you ever considered why Christians flee from other Middle East nations? Why do they flee to Israel rather than Islamic regimes? <br /><br />Why do many Palestinian Christians refer to Jesus as Palestinian rather than a Jew? Do you really think they avoid the word Jew because of Israel's oppression? <br /><br />Spend some time reading at the CAMERA website and see someone else's point of view:<br /><br />http://www.camera.org<br /><br />https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/269807/why-elderly-jewish-woman-was-murdered-michael-ledeen<br /><br />http://www.zeteo316.com/the-road-to-nakba/<br /><br />God has always punished Israel for disobedience. He has also brought Israel back from exile while it was still in disobedience. In fact it's hard to find a time when Israel perfectly obeyed God. No nation has.<br /><br />The Bible clearly teaches that Israel will be finally placed in its land forever (Amos 9:14-15). The land belongs to God and He has clearly given it to Israel. Among many other verses read Jer chap 31 and Ezekiel 36. <br /><br />God has gathered Israel unbelief in preparation for wrath with the purpose of refinement – Eze 20:33-38 and compare Isa 1:22, 25, 48:10; Jer 6:27-30, 9:7; Zech 13:9; Mal 3:2-3 and Zeph 2:1-2. In Zech chaps 12 to 14, God gathers the nations against Israel to judge them and then He judges those same nations. The process will redeem Israel.<br /><br />Finally, Israel isn't perfect. But it isn't the monster as portrayed by the UN and BDS activists. An honest look at its neighbors places it well above them regarding human rights. See CAMERA. And notably these other nations also deny Christ! So if it's a matter of obedience, NO nation deserves to be in the land currently. But there's much more to it than that. It all boils down to believing what God has said. <br /><br />Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-14504909654070478342018-04-05T23:59:27.657-07:002018-04-05T23:59:27.657-07:00J-Victus removed his comment and links to his blog...J-Victus removed his comment and links to his blog on his profile after I responded to him. That blog was a meeting place for anti-Zionist sympathizers<br />....<br />Not sure why I ever did that, Perhaps I was not as confident in my piece as I am now. The reason the Talmud is so important in this discussion is that it undergirds the reason the Jews were cast out of Israel by the second century: they clung to the teachings of the Pharisees <br />(Says Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, once president of the Jewish Theological Seminary: "Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes of name, inevitable adaptation of custom, and adjustment of Law, the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered.") <br /><br />Anyways, yes, Jew-hating is terrible and anyone who blames the Jews as a whole for the filth in the Talmud or the viciousness of the IDF is a maniac and tainting the legitimate criticism with unjustified ethnic bigotry.<br /><br />I wish I could remember exactly what I wrote on this wall years ago, but I'll loop it around to the original topic, eschatology. Even if the Dispensational Premillennialist position is correct, that is still no reason to support the Israeli government and its actions. Just because something is prophesied to happen doesn't mean we must actively support it. Should we have cheered on Christ's execution, though it was prophesied? That the Jews will (and have) return to Israel is indeed a prophecy. But they are still illegitimately holding the land. They cannot have a Biblically legitimate claim to the land until they are obedient. All throughout the Old Testament, the Israelites are admonished to obey their God, lest he cast them out from the land that they have an eternal, but conditional, claim to. Consider:<br /><br /><br />“You shall therefore keep all My statutes and all My judgments, and perform them, that the land where I am bringing you to dwell may not vomit you out.” (Leviticus 20:22)<br /><br />“But if you do not obey Me, and do not observe all these commandments … but break My covenant … I will bring the land to desolation, and your enemies who dwell in it shall be astonished at it. I will scatter you among the nations and draw out a sword after you; your land shall be desolate and your cities waste … You shall perish among the nations, and the land of your enemies shall eat you up.” (Leviticus 26: 14, 15, 32-33, 28)<br /><br />“Therefore Yahweh was very angry with Israel, and removed them from His sight; there was none left but the tribe of Judah alone…. So Israel was carried away from their own land to Assyria, as it is to this day.” (2 Kings 17:18, 23)<br /><br />“And I said, after [Israel] had done all these things, ‘Return to Me.’ But she did not return. And her treacherous sister Judah saw it. Then I saw that for all the causes for which backsliding Israel had committed adultery, I had put her away and given her a certificate of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah did not fear, but went and played the harlot also.” (Jeremiah 3: 7-8)<br /><br />What could be more disobedient than rejecting their Messiah? It was the reason they were cast out of the land, as testimony to the justice of God and the authenticity of Christ's ministry (him having predicted their exile). One day, the Jews will accept their Messiah, and then they will dwell there in peace, but not before. Only strife can, and only strife will, persist while they hold the land without fulfilling the conditions God gave them, and surely an essential step in that is to shed the burden of the casuistry and narcissism of the Talmud, written by the intellectual descendants of Christ's worst enemies.<br /><br />Blessings, J-VictusJ-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-53845877910133449892014-08-10T06:26:12.308-07:002014-08-10T06:26:12.308-07:00For the record:
http://jvictus.blogspot.com/For the record:<br /><br />http://jvictus.blogspot.com/Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-40091203620554226912014-08-10T06:14:18.392-07:002014-08-10T06:14:18.392-07:00J-Victus removed his comment and links to his blog...J-Victus removed his comment and links to his blog on his profile after I responded to him. That blog was a meeting place for anti-Zionist sympathizers.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-55234196254161378152013-07-16T05:04:25.923-07:002013-07-16T05:04:25.923-07:00BTW, I note that one Edward Miller has posted at y...BTW, I note that one Edward Miller has posted at your site. Is he the same Edward Miller who has written the following one-sided comment about Israel's incursion into Lebanon?<br /><br /><i>A dangerous attitude pervasive in Washington is that acting as Israel's errand boy in the Mideast carries little or no risk. Experience suggests otherwise...During Israel's 1982 genocidal War in Lebanon, while she was butchering some 30,000 Palestinian refugees, destroying Beirut and forcing that city's half a million citizens to flee to the suburbs, Israel's Washington lobbyist talked President Reagan into joining the slaughter. Reagan obliged by ordering his battleship, the USS New Jersey, sitting off Lebanon's coast, to hurl shells into those towns around Beirut to which the refugees were fleeing. The Lebanese did not forget this little gesture and not long after, on October 23, 1983, 264 US Marines in our security force paid with their lives for Reagan's act when a car bomb exploded next to their barracks.</i><br /><br />Of course we don't trust the Jewish version because of the Talmud - right? <br /><br /><a href="https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3/MFlebanon.html" rel="nofollow"> Israel & Lebanon</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.jewishpress.com/indepth/front-page/lebanon-1982-the-war-that-drove-israels-left-insane/2003/05/30/" rel="nofollow"> 1982 War</a><br /><br /><a href="http://archive.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=16942" rel="nofollow"> The Myth of the “War Criminal” Sharon</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-15109895883633075112013-07-16T04:26:44.061-07:002013-07-16T04:26:44.061-07:00Here's the problem:
That the Talmud contain...Here's the problem: <br /> <br />That the Talmud contains vile things isn't the real issue. So what? What is an issue is the real reason why Jews are hated. Is it really because they're a vile ethnic group who follow a vile Talmud? Is that really why Islamists still persecute and kill them along with most other non-Muslims? See the logic?<br /><br />Anti-Semites will find any excuse to hate Jews and Israel. In fact, I've spoken to a substantial amount of Jew haters who have no idea about the Talmud. The fact that Jews and/or Israel are often hated by the same people who are liberal or licentious in their morality should tell one something. I've been writing a weekly column on the Middle East for a few years now. As part of my brief I look at attitudes towards the Jews in the Middle East and Europe. The Talmud doesn't play a role. <br /><br />My article is essentially about HP versus CD and what Scripture says about Israel as a future distinct nation redeemed by God. It seems that many HP adherents have swallowed the Stephen Sizer and Gary Burge Kool-Aid. Craig Blomberg is one of them. In fact Blomberg's hermeneutics - to borrow his own term - rest upon shifting sands. <br /><br />You'll not find much about the Talmud on Sizer's blog and neither will you find much about Islamist oppression of its own people and non-Muslims. His narrative is about stolen land and anti-Zionism. <br />Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-24204840845865302722013-07-16T01:38:16.458-07:002013-07-16T01:38:16.458-07:00This comment has been removed by the author.J-Victushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15193481455649139795noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-8148730192543849822012-07-15T04:48:14.494-07:002012-07-15T04:48:14.494-07:00Where is the Promise of His Coming?<a href="http://www.rapturesolution.com/beechick/Gray/promise1.htm" rel="nofollow"> Where is the Promise of His Coming?</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-14462959245007018662012-07-15T04:36:32.411-07:002012-07-15T04:36:32.411-07:00"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan unde...<a href="http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/proph/rom1620.htm" rel="nofollow">"And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen" (Romans 16:20) <br />A Problem for Preterists </a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-59290340747839476902012-07-15T04:25:48.683-07:002012-07-15T04:25:48.683-07:00Paul did say that in Acts 18:6 yet also note Gal 1...Paul did say that in Acts 18:6 yet also note Gal 1:15-16. He was speaking of that generation. He also defended Israel’s future in Romans. Again, I remind you of what God promised Israel in Jer 31 and ask you whether He was being non-literal or if He can change His mind after such a vow. If you think so, please advise why and think about the implications.<br /><br />Again, was Jesus being figurative in Matt 24:21-22? How many Jews lost their lives in 70AD compared to the Holocaust?<br /><br />The abomination of desolation did not occur in 70 AD as preterists claim. I refer you to 2 Thess 2:3-4. That did not occur in 70 AD. Note also Matt 24:15; Dan 9:27; 11:31 and 12:11. <br /><br /><a href="http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Studies/Abomination%20of%20Desolation.pdf" rel="nofollow">Abomination of Desolation</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Studies/Preterism.pdf" rel="nofollow">Notes on preterism</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.worldofthebible.com/Bible%20Studies/Historical%20Problems%20for%20a%20First%20Century%20Fulfillment.pdf" rel="nofollow">Historical Problems for a 70 AD Fulfillment</a><br /><br /><a href="http://rediscoveringthebible.com/Culver.html" rel="nofollow">Culver on Daniel</a><br /><br /> The Olivet Discourse was a response to the disciples’ questions which involved the destruction of the temple, Jerusalem and the end of the age. Read Dr Fruchtenbaum’s <a href="http://www.quickening-spirit.com/pdf/olivet-discourse.pdf" rel="nofollow"> discussion on the subject</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/preterjv.htm" rel="nofollow">Preterism answered by Scripture</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/dispen/literal.htm" rel="nofollow">Do you interpret the Bible literally? </a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-59076092587047655682012-07-14T21:44:55.158-07:002012-07-14T21:44:55.158-07:00Paul, you remember, touted his Jewish credentials,...Paul, you remember, touted his Jewish credentials, but in Corinth and elsewhere he had to battle "the Jews" and often go into hiding "for fear of the Jews". He didn't seem to count himself as one. In Corinth, 'he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads!"... From now on I will go to the Gentiles.'<br /><br />As for the "end times" mentioned in the NT, the writers weren't mistaken, as is often charged! They understood that they were witnessing the end of the old covenant and the beginning of the new one. It happened over a period of years in history. The Romans' destruction of the temple and Jerusalem in A.D.70, was surely what Jesus was referring to when he predicted that all those stones would be torn down in the disciples' lifetime. And Christ warned people about it so that they could flee in time. Luke makes it clear that "the abomination of desolation" would be the heathen Romans' army encircling the holy city Jerusalem. The holocaust was terrible. Read Josephus.<br /><br />For more on this, I recommend "Paradise Restored" by David Chilton (and other preterist writers).M.Bracy Yiapanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327064851102367884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-91186465953676990412012-07-14T05:15:33.916-07:002012-07-14T05:15:33.916-07:00I pray you take a look at some of these examples o...I pray you take a look at some of these examples of Jewish Christians. Especially Dr Rydelnik's testimony,<br /><br /><a href="http://www.jewishvoice.org/" rel="nofollow"> Jewish Voice</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.ariel.org/" rel="nofollow"> Ariel Ministries</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.messiahnj.org/" rel="nofollow"> Messianic Fellowship</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.oliviermelnick.com/index.php" rel="nofollow"> Oliver Melnick</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.michaelrydelnik.org/index.php" rel="nofollow"> Michael Rydelnick</a><br /><br /><a href="http://www.dod.org/Products/DOD1931.aspx" rel="nofollow"> Michael Rydelnick ~ my search for Messiah</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-69392120475295909332012-07-14T05:03:49.213-07:002012-07-14T05:03:49.213-07:00Marcia, it’s not a contest over whether the Qur’an...Marcia, it’s not a contest over whether the Qur’an or Hadith are viler than the Talmud. Why make it so? What really matters is what God says He will accomplish for Israel (and us) regardless of how wicked they may be compared to other races. It’s really all about trusting His word. I know the types of Jews you refer to but I also know those who have accepted Christ. You prefer to concentrate on the worst examples of the race. You can do that with any ethnic group. <br /><br />Jews don’t cease to be Jews once they believe. The early church members were Jews and always considered themselves Jews. Gentiles are never referred to as spiritual Israel. <br /><br />In your opinion, which portions of the texts cited in Jer 31, Ezekiel, Amos and Acts that refer to Israel’s full national redemption are meant to be taken literally or not - those that suit your presuppositions? What exegesis can you offer for allegorizing select portions text? Unfortunately, HPs such as Ladd and Blomberg have also been silent on problem texts, which is why HP does not trump dispensationalism. <br /><br />The disciples thought Christ could come at any time and for them that coming was imminent; which is why they thought they were in the last days. I don’t have one of those guide books that specify which verses can be taken literally and which are figurative. So, I’m presuming the following is literal:<br /><br />For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect's sake those days will be shortened. Mat 24:21-22 <br /><br />Since we know the world has seen far worse times after 70 AD, I assume Jesus wasn’t exaggerating and this event is still future. Regarding the expression “soon to take place” – which Revelation events took place? Historicists differ hopelessly when allegorizing those events that have allegedly occurred. A similar expression was used by Jesus in Revelation for His second coming (Rev 3:11). If He came in 70 AD, the early church fathers missed it because they were still expecting the event to occur. <br /><br />See <a href="http://www.spiritandtruth.org/teaching/Book_of_Revelation/commentary/htm/chapters/01.html#3.1" rel="nofollow">THIS</a> and <a href="http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/reformed/pretjv10.htm" rel="nofollow">THIS</a> <br /><br />My mind is made up regarding Israel’s redemption because <i>Scripture plainly teaches it</i>. Yours is also made up, yet you show no scriptural back up aside from some proof texts.<br /><br />There will be a rapture because we are told so; even though its timing is debatable. Regarding your rapture “fantasy” remark; if you take the time to visit someone’s blog and drop opinion bombs, you should at least be ready to defend your comments biblically.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-14506782886706675332012-07-13T18:54:02.540-07:002012-07-13T18:54:02.540-07:00Mac-
I slid into this blog sideways from some sear...Mac-<br />I slid into this blog sideways from some search I’d done without ever having read your thorough exposition. If I had, I doubt that I’d have ever tackled such a debate. Your mind is surely made up. <br />You should understand that I have to generalize in talking about the Jews. And those who believe are not Jews anymore. I still have some hope for my daughter-in-law (and her family), although they’re quite smug, typically lib-dem and anti-christ. I worry about the two grandkids. I’ve had other Jewish friends, having grown up in SoCal. What does it mean to be anti-semitic? To want them killed? Or just to want them thwarted? I find that using that epithet is a bit like calling all who oppose Obama racists. Remember, the Jews at Jesus’ trial asked to have his blood be upon them and on their children. <br />Their accomplishments are almost incredible, considering that they’ve been in rebellion against God since that time. But they think they’re the chosen race because they’re so superior, and inculcate that into every child. When you compare their Nobel prizes with the Arabs’ it’s quite amazing. But the Koran is actually way less vile than the Talmud. <br />The Koran says Jesus is a great prophet who was virgin born, worked miracles, etc. The Muslims just can’t accept that God could have a “son”, which they say, must be the result of copulation. <br />The Talmud, on the other hand, says Jesus was a bastard and a pervert and blasphemer, etc. I can’t bear to go on. I still say you should read the Talmud (more than a few verses). When I did years ago, it opened my eyes. But again, I realize that few of today’s Jews know the Talmud--except for the growing ranks of the ultra-orthodox in Israel! I have a feeling many nominal Jews will soon decide to divorce themselves from this rabble and embrace Christ as lord and savior. That could be the fulfillment of Jeremiah 31. <br />Anyway, this will be my last post on this subject. I listened to all 66 minutes of the talk by Craig Blomberg(’s friend) and am proud to say that it describes me quite well. Sometimes I got lost by the pre-post-a-millennial terminology and don’t know which one I should claim. I just know I don’t believe in any literal 1000 year reign, or any future “tribulation” or worse yet a “rapture”! What a fairy tale! But since I take scripture literally when it’s meant to be taken literally, and Rev. begins by saying it was about things that “were soon to take place”, I ascribe it to the first century and the Roman persecutions that slammed the church. And such tribulation is often repeated when the Word is introduced to a new country, such as China. Then it’s eventually accepted and considered normal practice. The same occurred across Europe in the 2nd through 9th centuries. You might read the great Bede on this. <br />The theme of finality shows up often in the NT, as in Hebrews 1:2 “...in these last days God has spoken to us by his Son.”<br />2Peter1:20 “...He was revealed in these last times for your sake.”<br />God blessM.Bracy Yiapanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01327064851102367884noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-2593750522753360262012-07-13T06:06:28.001-07:002012-07-13T06:06:28.001-07:00What, then, is the true and only cause? In a word,...What, then, is the true and only cause? In a word, it is Satan. The solution is to be found in Revelation 12. Satan hates the nation through whom has come so much blessing to the world, especially the Savior. First, the dragon is incensed against the child of the woman (Jesus Christ), then he goes to make war with the remnant of her seed, Israel. Moreover, when Satan is angry against Israel, it always culminates in defiance against the Lord Jesus Christ. The two are inseparable.<br /><br />Charles Feinberg ~ <i>The Cause of Anti-Semitism</i>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-7896574207975478662012-07-13T06:05:58.147-07:002012-07-13T06:05:58.147-07:00Given the implication of God’s direct statements a...Given the implication of God’s direct statements above, we can’t simply assume verses such as Matt 21:43 & 2 Peter 2 teach replacement theology or that a future Israel cannot be redeemed In “Has the Church replaced Israel” (p 142), Mike Vlach argues that Matt 21 means that Jesus’ rejection applied to the current nation but that it does not - in fact cannot - be an eternal rejection. <br /><br />Jesus’ reign doesn’t end with the Millennium. Eph 2:4-7 refers to “ages to come” which fits the scheme of a Millennium prior to an Eternal State...where Jesus still reigns. Isaiah 65 (and elsewhere in the OT) describes an idyllic existence where death still occurs. A thorough treatment of the Kingdom of God is Alva McClain’s book “The Greatness of the Kingdom”. He considers the OT texts in conjunction with the NT. A face-value reading of Revelation teaches that Jesus comes (Rev 19); Satan is incarcerated for a thousand years Rev 20; then released for a short time, and finally the Eternal State. <br /><br />Most of the “1000” passages in the OT are literal numbers save for Psalm 50:10. It seems odd to single that one verse out as support. Most, if not all, the numbers in Revelation are also literal. There were 7 messages to 7 literal churches and 7 literal seals, trumpets and vials. The 42 months literally equate to three-and-a-half Jewish years (1,260 days). There is no reason to take the numbers symbolically. The 1000 yrs is given six times in Rev 20. If the apostle wanted to convey 1000 yrs – how else would he have expressed it? You might argue for an extended Millennium but Revelation plainly draws a distinction between the present state, a future Millennium and the Eternal State.<br /><br /> I highly commend Matt Waymeyer’s “Revelation 20 and the Millennial Debate.” You can download his sermon on the subject at Lynda O’s site <a href="http://scripturethoughts.wordpress.com/2010/03/17/shepherds-conference-matt-weymeyer-on-revelation-20/" rel="nofollow">Thy Kingdom Come</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-71926050470268510472012-07-13T06:05:16.969-07:002012-07-13T06:05:16.969-07:00Read Ezekiel 36:16-38 carefully. The following ver...Read Ezekiel 36:16-38 carefully. The following verses in particular:<br /><br />"Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'Thus says the Lord GOD, "It is not for your sake, O house of Israel, that I am about to act, but for My holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you went. "I will vindicate the holiness of My great name which has been profaned among the nations, which you have profaned in their midst. Then the nations will know that I am the LORD," declares the Lord GOD, "when I prove Myself holy among you in their sight. "For I will take you from the nations, gather you from all the lands and bring you into your own land. "Then I will sprinkle clean water on you, and you will be clean; I will cleanse you from all your filthiness and from all your idols. <b>"Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.</b> "You will live in the land that I gave to your forefathers; so you will be My people, and I will be your God. Eze 36:22-28 <br /><br />What about these?<br /><br />"Also I will restore the captivity of My people Israel, And they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them; They will also plant vineyards and drink their wine, And make gardens and eat their fruit. "I will also plant them on their land, <b>And they will not again be rooted out from their land Which I have given them,"</b> Says the LORD your God. Amo 9:14-15<br /><br />Long after Matt 21...<br /><br />So when they had come together, they were asking Him, saying, "Lord, is it at this time You are restoring the kingdom to Israel?" He said to them, "It is not for you to know times or epochs which the Father has fixed by His own authority; Act 1:6-7 <br /><br />And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written: "The Deliverer will come out of Zion; <b>he will remove ungodliness from Jacob. And this is my covenant with them, when I take away their sins."</b> In regard to the gospel they are enemies for your sake, <b>but in regard to election they are dearly loved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the call of God are irrevocable.</b> Rom 11:26-29Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-61795815522355076132012-07-13T06:04:40.663-07:002012-07-13T06:04:40.663-07:00When you read Jeremiah did you consider these? Is ...When you read Jeremiah did you consider these? Is God lying? Can you trust a God that changes His mind after such an iron-clad promise?<br /><br />"Behold, days are coming," declares the LORD, "when I will make a <b>new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah</b>, not like the covenant which I made with their fathers in the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the LORD. "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, <b>"I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.</b> They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more." <b>Thus says the LORD, Who gives the sun for light by day And the fixed order of the moon and the stars for light by night, Who stirs up the sea so that its waves roar; The LORD of hosts is His name: "If this fixed order departs From before Me," declares the LORD, "Then the offspring of Israel also will cease From being a nation before Me forever."</b> Thus says the LORD, <b>"If the heavens above can be measured And the foundations of the earth searched out below, Then I will also cast off all the offspring of Israel For all that they have done,"</b> declares the LORD. Jer 31:31-37)<br /><br />For I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: A partial hardening has happened to Israel until the full number of the Gentiles has come in. Rom 11:25 <br /><br />If God can harden hearts, He can also do the opposite.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-19781938201324481972012-07-13T06:04:01.588-07:002012-07-13T06:04:01.588-07:00Sorry I took so long to respond.
I think you’re ...Sorry I took so long to respond. <br /><br />I think you’re taking a myopic and unfair view of the Jews. I wonder why? I belong to a race of people which are historically infamous for engaging in criminal activities across several continents. In fact my racial group more generally holds to a religious conviction that would not be considered Christian by many. However, the criminals aren’t representative of my race and neither do I receive any personal condemnation for it. You’re tainting the whole race (past, present and future) over what you perceive some are doing. <br /><br />You may dispute what I said about Hollywood and the Jews but I can think of Australian film & TV media companies (I’m sure there are European counterparts) that aren’t controlled by Jews and which produce “unchristian” content. The Jewish race has experienced (and is experiencing) persecution from people who have no idea about the Talmud. Jews are persecuted because they are Jews. In fact most media content is anti-Jewish/Israel.<br /><br />Talking about atheist synagogues won’t do when many so-called Christian churches are marrying same sex partners, denying the Crucifixion, apostatizing and preaching evolution. <a href="http://www.christianpost.com/news/ex-pastor-turned-american-atheist-director-tells-how-she-lost-faith-78048/" rel="nofollow"> Note this.</a> I can cite many examples. What is missing in the narrative are the growing Messianic missionaries that are witnessing in the West, Israel and to the Muslims.<br /><br />You wanted me to pray for your friend and I did. I fully sympathize. My mother prayed for me all the years I was involved in the new age. But how do you then - being an Arminian and not believing that God can sovereignly change Israel’s heart – justify praying for someone who has the free will to rebel? How does that work? BTW, I’m not a Calvinist either.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.com