tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post3302915803478680228..comments2023-11-01T07:34:22.846-07:00Comments on Thoughts on Eschatology: Steve Wohlberg's End Time DelusionsAlf Cengiahttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-44738636700935583392022-05-29T04:19:07.927-07:002022-05-29T04:19:07.927-07:00What an up and down confused week of reading and s...What an up and down confused week of reading and studying "End Time Delusions" after attending a local 3-part seminar given by Steve Wohlberg.<br /><br />His ad in our local paper was for the event to be held at the community center. However, at the last minute that venue cancelled and guests who showed up there were redirected to the local SDA church. In that the ad did not mention SDA, nor did Wohlberg mention his SDA affiliation during the seminar, I understood that a local church came to his rescue at the last moment. After reading his book and the comments on this blog, I find keeping this a secret was somewhat deceptive. For if the ad had mentioned SDA I would have been less inclined to attend.<br /><br />Overall, I was impressed by his correct emphasis of comparing scripture with scripture. However, after a while I noted familiar scriptures Wohlberg neglected. And his book's last chapter ["144,000 Israelites Indeed"] in which Protestant Sola Scripture became that plus Sabbath worship!<br /><br />The above became "Red Flag" apparent to me when on page 205 Wohlberg writes, "Maybe, while reading this book, you have discovered that you yourself have unwittingly deceived others about Bible pophecy....(For) those who 'love and practice a lie' will unexpectedly find themselves outside the New Jerusalem. 'All liars' will be hurled into the lake of fire. Thus truth versus lies is a life-and-death matter."<br /><br />In other words, "the simplicity of the gospel i.e. the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, actually requires a seminary degree that legalistically agrees with Wohlberg's interpretation of scripture? I would personally NEVER assert MY understanding of scripture as THE truth. Over the years, I have become more humble and respectful of GOD's word, not less.<br /><br />I have been a discerning, avid Bible student for 30-years. Yet, still able to be mislead is a wake-up call for me. Jesse WPennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02326189581294764243noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-48277198216944114372017-09-09T09:32:45.191-07:002017-09-09T09:32:45.191-07:00Thanks for dropping by. Appreciate the input.Thanks for dropping by. Appreciate the input.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-31344255496299863922017-09-07T10:40:18.452-07:002017-09-07T10:40:18.452-07:00I would like to thank you for the efforts you have...I would like to thank you for the efforts you have made in writing this article. I am hoping the same best work from you in the future as well. In fact your creative writing abilities has inspired me to start my own BlogEngine blog now. Really the blogging is spreading its wings rapidly. Your write up is a fine example of it.<br /><a href="http://www.luderwycliffe.com/" rel="nofollow">Eschatology</a>Alis Greenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04052393414909444339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-25955084870474262042014-05-04T07:43:09.528-07:002014-05-04T07:43:09.528-07:00BTW, Christine, I used to frequent Constance's...BTW, Christine, I used to frequent Constance's blog soon after I left the New Age behind. I rarely go there now for various reasons. I notice that you are quite prolific there and that you're given to making throwaway statements like:<br /><br />Quote: The main disasters in Revelation are apparently mostly against the antichrist who isn't here yet. Forget pre trib rapture by the way. escape through the event like Noah in the Ark is finding a safe place, not flying totally off world. ~ End quote<br /><br />I see that you profile yourself as "Greek Orthodox". I have some, albeit limited, knowledge of G.O. and was attracted to some of its rich history after I left the New Age. The problem with G.O. is that, like Catholicism, Scripture isn't its strong point. Church doctrine oversees the texts rather than letting the texts speak for themselves. You can say what you like at Constance's blog, but take care in providing evidence for your assertions when posting here.<br />Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-42072750324145804652014-04-30T08:07:13.660-07:002014-04-30T08:07:13.660-07:00Thank you for your comments, Christine.
Yes, EGW...<br />Thank you for your comments, Christine. <br /><br />Yes, EGW plagiarized. As to whether she was under possession or not, I can't judge.<br /><br />Yes, Mosaic Law is no longer applicable. We are now under the Law of Christ, as Paul tells us in Galatians.<br /><br />I don't see where a mix of historicist and futurist view "makes more sense."<br /><br />A few years ago I was a posttribulationist and might have made similar statements regarding Thessalonians, Daniel and the Olivet Discourse. I never used to concern myself over it much despite having many pretrib friends. However, having seen how adamant some of the newest prewrath people were that they were right, I began to look at it closer. And I changed my mind.<br /><br />I eliminated prewrath fairly quickly because it hangs on the premise that the Great Tribulation is cut short. It simply isn't. You mention a "secret" rapture and it turns out that the prewrath view has those as well.<br /><br />If you take all the texts concerning Christ's return and compare them you find that He comes at a time of peace yet also after a time of horrific conditions. Both cannot be correct for a single coming. <br /><br />Posttribulationism usually requires that the 7th trumpet equals Paul's Last trump. The 7th trumpet occurs prior to Christ's return therefore it also teaches a "secret" rapture. To get over that problem, they rearrange the chronology of Revelation. They have to push the 7th trumpet forward and the resurrection of the trib saints (Rev 20:4) chronologically backwards to fix the "secret" rapture problem and maintain a single First Resurrection. The problem is that Dan 12 tells us that the resurrection of his people will be after 1,335 days which aligns with a post 70th week event. <br /><br />Robert Gundry actually admits to a two-phase First Resurrection (The Church and the Tribulation p 148). Yet he won't accept a pretrib resurrection of church saints. In fact he argues contra a plain pre-mil understanding that the Sheep & Goats judgment occurs post-mil. That scenario eliminates the problem of unsaved people getting into the millennium. Also consider this: if the rapture occurs at the end of the tribulation then why does one need a Sheep & Goats judgment? <br /><br />The Antichrist's 42 month kingdom still exists during the bowl judgments, which indicates that God's wrath is at least coincident with the beast's rule. We could say more on all this but suffice to say that it's rather more complex than your observations might indicate. Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-15029323829352587032014-04-29T21:39:37.780-07:002014-04-29T21:39:37.780-07:001. EGW reported observed behaviors during the supp...1. EGW reported observed behaviors during the supposed revelations was more consistent with possession than inspiration by The Holy Spirit, and she plagiarized a lot.<br /><br />2. The Mosaic Laws were a unit during the Mosaic Covenant, though there were some more important than others. Under the New Covenant, only the moral and some civil as showing how moral works out in practice would be relevant. Paul reiterates the morality over and over while telling us circumcision food laws and sabbaths are NOT relevant any more.<br /><br />3. I am not sure what your position on the rapture is, but while a mix of historicist and futurist makes more sense that preterist or either of the other two alone, you cannot have a pre tribulation rapture because Paul in II Thessalonians, Daniel chapter 7 and Jesus in Matt. 24 "AFTER the tribulation of those days the Sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky" rules a pre trib and secret pre trib rapture out. Jesus comes back to end the antichrist's persecution of the church and end his rule and takes up those of us still living in hiding or on the run from the antichrist to Himself, while He rains down wrath on the antichrist, then descends to take over.<br /><br />Jehovah's Witnesses have I think a similar scenario, but if so it is the only thing they got right.Christine Erikson (aka Justina)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11594093718714798117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-39543996837496111652014-01-13T18:20:11.864-08:002014-01-13T18:20:11.864-08:00Note: I should have said that the Mosaic Laws are ...Note: I should have said that the Mosaic Laws are civil, dietary and ceremonial...to be observed as ONE UNIT.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-15991621701954990272014-01-13T09:44:30.092-08:002014-01-13T09:44:30.092-08:00I find your comment on prewrath perplexing. I assu...I find your comment on prewrath perplexing. I assume you hold to the Van Kampen-Rosenthal prewrath rapture view. If so, you have far more in common with pretribulationists than with someone who teaches that the millennial earth remains entirely desolate while believers reign in heaven. <br /><br />Prewrath is self refuting. It teaches that Matt 24:31 is the rapture which cuts short the tribulation. It teaches that the last half of Dan 70th week is divided into the great tribulation and the day of the Lord. Yet everywhere Scripture tells us that the great tribulation is three-and-a-half years. If Matt 24:31 is the rapture then it occurs at the end of the week, not before. Furthermore, the rapture doesn't cut the tribulation short at all. The gathering in Matthew occurs AFTER the tribulation, after the cosmic signs and after the sign of the Son of man. <br /><br />Prewrathers totally confuse the Lord's meaning in Matt 24:21-22. He cuts those days short so that people can be saved to enter the millennium alive. <br /><br />They teach that all second coming passages and rapture passages mean the same single event, and yet have three more coming following the one in Matt 24:31. The one or two who teach that Christ remains in the atmosphere after the rapture have a problem with the great multitude worshipping the Lamb in heaven, immediately after the rapture. <br /><br />See my article <a href="http://mac-eschatology.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-gathering-of-mat-2431.html" rel="nofollow"> The Gathering of Mat 24:31</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-32598936592283714922014-01-13T09:37:19.382-08:002014-01-13T09:37:19.382-08:00I don't wish my responses to you to be taken i...I don't wish my responses to you to be taken in a harsh way. Either way, here we go:<br /><br />You say I'm mean spirited. Please point out where I'm unfair. When someone devotes so much time disparaging a system in his books, on his website and on YouTube then it is fair to respond to him. He calls dispensationalism the third frog of false prophecy. Should that not elicit some response? Does that sound fair to you?<br /><br />You say I haven't portrayed him truthfully. Can you show me how? Wohlberg didn't mention that he was an Adventist in "End Time Delusions" (or in the Israel Deception). It should have been particularly germane due to the fact that he discussed the Big Ten Commandments, Revelation and the Antichrist. Where was the BIG warning about the Sabbath and the true Mark of the Beast (Sunday worship)? <br /><br />He appeared on the Jan Markell show which is openly dispensational and pretribulational yet neglected to he mention that he was an Adventist with a list of credits to his name attacking her beliefs. He was there pushing his Twilight merchandise. When she found out she promptly pulled his materials off her Web Store. <br /><br />Regarding the Sabbath; it's not about following "Catholic law". What does your Bible say? You may want to familiarize yourself again with Acts chapter 15, Rom 14:4-6; Col 2:16-17 & Gal 5:1-4. The meaning of these texts is obvious. The Mosaic Law is an indivisible unit of civil, ritual and ceremonial laws. Break one and you break them all. Is keeping the Sabbath (in contrast to keeping Sunday) a matter of salvation to you as it is with Adventism?Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-78582115998355213282014-01-12T17:28:06.376-08:002014-01-12T17:28:06.376-08:00Steve openly says he's SDA. I feel you're ...Steve openly says he's SDA. I feel you're not portraying him truthfully.<br />What's your evidence for a pre-trib rapture? I don't see it. But I can give you numerous verses in favor of a pre-wrath rapture "after the tribulation of those days" as it states in Matthew 24. <br />The TRUE sabbath is on the 7th day, from sunset on Friday to sunset on Saturday. Do you rest on the Sabbath? Or do you follow the Catholic law? <br />I find your article mean-spirited. mkmhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10353263284702692668noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-3620323686368543772013-11-20T04:15:40.734-08:002013-11-20T04:15:40.734-08:00Quote: " SDA is the true remnant Church, Stev...Quote: " SDA is the true remnant Church, Steve Wolhberg (sic) is right. You people are wrong in accusing him."<br /><br />Escorpion Venenoso, perhaps you can show me exactly where I am wrong and how the SDA is the true remnant church. <br /><br />Most importantly, please do note that this article was responding to Wohlberg's polemics against the view which I believe in. <br /><br />Quote: "Steve Wolhberg (sic) is right. He does not twist the scriptures, you accuse him to."<br /><br />Wohlberg teaches that Israel is prophetically finished as a nation but the Bible tells me something else (Jer 31: 31-37; Amos 9:14-15; Hos 5:15; Acts 1:6-7; Rom 11: 25-29). <br /><br />Quote: "Yeah Michael the Archangel is definitely the preincarnate Christ. Jesus is described as being the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT."<br /><br />The theophanies of the OT are never said to be Michael. The SDA derived that doctrine by deduction in the 1840s. Part of that conclusion is based on the assumption that Israel equals the church. Michael is simply the angel assigned to the nation Israel. Angels are created beings while Jesus existed eternally as God. Most notably, not once is Jesus said to be Michael in Scripture.<br /><br />The following is problematic for that view:<br /><br />Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses, dared not bring against him a reviling accusation, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Jud 1:9 <br /><br />Jesus also claimed to be Jehovah. You might find the following links insightful:<br /><br />http://creation.com/jesus-christ-our-creator-a-biblical-defence-of-the-trinity<br /><br />http://jesusisyhwh.blogspot.com/<br />Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-12901766551826242802013-11-19T21:30:04.607-08:002013-11-19T21:30:04.607-08:00Yeah Michael the Archangel is definitely the prein...Yeah Michael the Archangel is definitely the preincarnate Christ. Jesus is described as being the "Angel of the Lord" in the OT. Michael defeats Satan in Revelation 12. Michael the Prince stands up for God's People in Daniel 12 and relievers them. The Captain of the Army of The Lord is Jesus, and he is worshipped by Joshua in the book of Joshua! Prove me wrong. Angel the word only means 'messenger' like a prophet or kings, Jesus is the arch messenger, or arch angel, aka chief messenger. SDA have historically believed in the Trinity. Ellen White did. Get your facts straight on AdventismJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755623024926926392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-85399549349048943162013-11-19T21:24:44.047-08:002013-11-19T21:24:44.047-08:00Steve Wolhberg is right. He does not twist the scr...Steve Wolhberg is right. He does not twist the scriptures, you accuse him to. Jonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755623024926926392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-25051593251836348882013-11-19T21:23:27.071-08:002013-11-19T21:23:27.071-08:00SDA is the true remnant Church, Steve Wolhberg is ...SDA is the true remnant Church, Steve Wolhberg is right. You people are wrong in accusing him. God blessJonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14755623024926926392noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-57960397719665236792013-04-08T19:42:19.840-07:002013-04-08T19:42:19.840-07:00I invite you to read my article again and carefull...I invite you to read my article again and carefully note my reason for writing it.<br /><br />It seems that Seventh-day Adventists believe that it's quite alright for Steve Wohlberg to write a number of books attacking dispensationalists, pretribulational rapturists and even Israel. <br /><br />In fact, as you might already know, he even has a website containing articles against Israel and dispensationalism. Many of these articles misrepresent both dispensationalism and Israel. <br /><br />For example, Wohlberg states that disp teaches 2 ways of salvation. But that isn't the case at all. <br /><br />There is only one way to salvation and that is through faith in Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God. <br /><br />Please give me a valid reason why he shouldn't be responded to. <br /><br /> <a href="http://www.exadventist.com/" rel="nofollow"> Ex Adventist Outreach</a>Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-83328344812107642182013-04-08T19:20:15.954-07:002013-04-08T19:20:15.954-07:00WHAT REALLY IS YOUR AIM? save others? or just jus...WHAT REALLY IS YOUR AIM? save others? or just justify that you are a hard headed person? The Truth is the Truth, not matter what, are you a Jesuit? to whom really is convenient all that supposed Truth you are talking about? you create a false hope in people, so they may continue in their sins, and that day will surprise them as a thief in the night, why you want them to believe a Jesuit invention, so proved and researched, supported by mediums and all the churches created by freemasons? What is your agenda? who you really serve? you may attack the SDA church all you want, but not matter what, Truth will triumph at the end, with you or without you, but God will never do anything in secret, He will tell all to His people by His prophet, who by the way, you do not know the whole history, you are violating the "Do not Tell false testimony against your neighbor", talking about that mentally retarded girl, that God has to use because was nobody else who qualified for the position and she become only By His grace in a prolific writer with so many information for His people, to whom now you owe even the cereals you eat at breakfast, because God wanted Holy People, Healthy, with Brilliant minds, and clear understanding, so God raised a humble girl with barely 3rd grade education, unable to attend school anymore, and she did not create the SDA church, she was a prophet in the making at that point, eating pork, a Sunday keeper eating meat, sick, but as God revealed to her how a child of God should eat clean, nourishing food, she become vegetarian, she followed the 8 principles of the Health reform, and grow as the few honest Bible students who studied the Bible with honesty, prayer and dedication put together all the Truth of the Bible, and that from the great men of God of all time, BE HONEST WITH YOURSELF, THE ONLY REASON OF DOUBT AND DISBELIEF IS LOVE OF SIN, the proud heart does not want to accept that God requires TOTAL SURRENDER AND OBEDIENCE, after we are saved, because Jesus mean: The one who will saved His people from their sins, NOT IN THEIR SINS, NOT TO KEEP SINNING. OR YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THIS???Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03576882143694541850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-79763037676608981652013-04-08T18:53:37.503-07:002013-04-08T18:53:37.503-07:00the Investigative Judgement already started with t...the Investigative Judgement already started with the living now, so the time of grace for SDA is about to be over , for those unprepared, then is coming a big shaken in the SDA Church and only the faithful will remain, mostly sheep without sheperds, and with those God will finish the last message to the world, thats your last chance, you reject that last chance and you are lost forever, because now is the last time of grace for the non-SDA, after that all the real children of God will be sealed, time of grace ends and the 7 plagues start pouring, you may believe it now, or when it happens, that's up to you, but this generation will not pass. the end is at hand. Religion has always had only one purpose. RE-LIGARE from latin= rebind, rebond, reunited, reglue restore to our first relation with God, be part of Jesus body, reborn, abide in Jesus, be the temple of the Holy Spirit, so as a byproduct you could be sanctify, get a divine nature, be holy, keep the commandments of God, be perfect in your sphere as God is in His OR YOU CANNOT BE SAVED. YOU LOST THE MEANING AND PURPOSE OF RELIGION AND YOU ARE LOST TOO.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03576882143694541850noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-26626140605698985222011-03-12T06:41:14.544-08:002011-03-12T06:41:14.544-08:00Thanks for your comment. I’m presently preparing f...Thanks for your comment. I’m presently preparing for a three week trip so I can’t respond to you in-depth. When I return, I’ll be putting something together in another post where I will address some of these issues.<br /><br />It may seem that my posts are attacking Steve Wohlberg personally. In fact, he’s written several books attacking dispensationalism, premillenialism and pretribulationalism. That being the case, some sort of response to his polemics should be expected.<br /><br />One problem with the book “Delusions” is that Steve doesn’t really inform his readers that he uses a different hermeneutic to what dispensationalists use. SDA relies heavily on the “Types and Shadows” methodology whenever Scripture doesn’t align with a presupposition. This allows Wohlberg to make Scripture mean almost anything he expects it to. <br /><br />One example is that Rev 7 plainly tells us who the 144,000 are but Wohlberg uses his “deductive logic” to make them something else. The location of the abyss and Armageddon are other examples of this “reasoning”.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-70790969443421414322011-03-11T20:09:20.464-08:002011-03-11T20:09:20.464-08:00I had to do a search to find out if Steve Wohlberg...I had to do a search to find out if Steve Wohlberg was indeed a Seventh-day-Adventist because I was so pleased to read, after only skimming through his book, that he was sharing truth with his reader. I believe that he was speaking to a general audience, not to place emphasis on any denomination, but to point out and emphasize truth as it is in God's word. It is apparent that you have not studied the prophecies or doctrines enough to know what God's word says. If you did study, "line upon line" and "precept upon precept" comparing Scripture upon Scripture, you would indeed know what the Scripture says about these things. It all fits together so simply. We can know that the Bible is truth, as so many do not believe, just by looking at the Prophecy in Daniel 2. History, predicted right on target. <br />You are wrong about Ellen White who herself did not call herself a "prophet" (not saying that you said she did) but a fitting title for one that simply passes ALL the tests of a true prophet. One thing you are wrong about is that she said that MANY would leave the (SDA) church only to have MANY more take their place. We do NOT believe (as a whole) that you necessarily have to be a Seventh-day-Adventist to be saved, on the contrary, MANY will come in (accept God's truth) at the last minute and not call themselves Seventh-day-Adventists, there will be no time, but they will have chosen to follow Him, to OBEY HIM, to "keep His commandments". Jesus said, "If you love me, keep my commandmenets." John 14:15 That means ALL 10, not just 9! Why is it that the majority of Christians leave out the 4th one!? Why is it that people call those that want to OBEY God and keep ALL of His commandments, "legalists"!? Why is it so important to keep 9, but neglect the 4th?! Maybe SDA's put so much emphasis on the 4th because it is the one that is forgotten or deemed not necessary?! I believe that God's 4th commandment, the ONLY one he said to "REMEMBER" is vitally important to those that LOVE and OBEY Him!It distinquishes HIM from all false gods, it points to HIM as Creator, he "rested" and "blessed" and "sanctified" His Sabbath, His Holy day!Genesis 2. Was God tired from "all His work"? Surely not!! He set it aside for His children to come before Him and worship Him who made Heaven and earth and all that is in it! This will be the distinquishing "sign" of God's people!<br />Keeping GOD'S Sabbath (not man's) distinguishes His people from those that do not obey Him! It is true, many "Christians" will be lost because they say it doesn't matter if we obey! Satan thought the same thing, he didn't need to OBEY!<br />"And the Lord said unto Moses, "How long refuse ye to keep my commandments and my laws? Exodus 16:28 Then He goes on to talk about His Sabbath! Nothing's changed! God does not change!Malachi 3:6<br />"Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD and the FAITH OF JESUS." Revelation 14:12 You cannot refute what God said! (Although the Catholic system does for sure!) But then most of Christendom follows in the footsteps of that system!~Blessings~marcihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17632567021603040655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-563974025167935242011-01-08T16:36:34.660-08:002011-01-08T16:36:34.660-08:00Thanks for your comments, Valerie. I'm glad yo...Thanks for your comments, Valerie. I'm glad you're out of that church.<br /><br />Blessings.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-63456476046916826312011-01-08T15:30:13.916-08:002011-01-08T15:30:13.916-08:00Hi. I am an X SDA. The "spirit" of this...Hi. I am an X SDA. The "spirit" of this church is demonic and deceptive and blinds people to truth with the lie that the sda church is the "one" true church and uses fear tactics and ridiculously distorted interpretaions of prophecy to prevent one from finding the Jesus of the Bible-Who is the Way and the Truth and the Life.<br /> It is a church of oppression. I am so glad that he whom the Son sets free is free indeed.<br /> I cry everyday for sda friends who are trapped in the bondage of the sda false doctrines. <br /><br />Here are a couple links for those sda'a who are secure enough in Christ and brave enough to seek out the truth. <br /><br />http://www.gentlybroken.com/<br /><br />http://www.formeradventist.com/stories/shewmake.htmlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16917952311511243338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-33765238719241213842011-01-08T15:25:58.684-08:002011-01-08T15:25:58.684-08:00Hi. I am an X SDA. All I can say is that the "...Hi. I am an X SDA. All I can say is that the "spirit" of this church is demonic and deceptive and blinds people to truth with the lie that the sda church is the "one" true church and uses fear tactics and ridiculously distorted interpretaions of prophecy to prevent one from finding the Jesus of the Bible-Who is the Way and the Truth and the Life.<br /> It is a church of oppression. I am so glad that he whom the Son sets free is free indeed.<br /> I cry everyday for sda friends who are trapped in the bondage of the sda false doctrines. <br /><br />Here are a couple links for those sda'a who are secure enough in Christ and brave enough to seek out the truth. <br /><br />http://www.gentlybroken.com/<br /><br />http://www.formeradventist.com/stories/shewmake.htmlUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16917952311511243338noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-60183481456359826352010-10-02T08:30:41.922-07:002010-10-02T08:30:41.922-07:00What Miller’s beliefs were at the start – whether ...What Miller’s beliefs were at the start – whether he was a Sunday observer or not – is a moot point. It doesn’t matter what his affiliation was at the time of the “1844” prediction. In fact he posthumously inspired several organizations – one of which I was a member of. <br /><br />Most SDAers I’ve spoken to do not deny a connection to Miller.<br /><br />It’s his view of Daniel and the date “1844” that we’re interested in when referring to SDA. The early “SDA” pioneers set their sights on that prophecy and when it failed to eventuate they regrouped and resorted to the doctrine of Investigative Judgment. Ellen G White was also involved in that.<br /><br />Whether or not the church became official in 1963 is also a moot point – the Sabbath doctrine has been observed by the SDA since the beginning. But starting dates weren’t my point. My point was Wohlberg’s and the SDA church’s reliance on White and Wohlberg’s attack on the “Left Behind” genre (dispensationalism). <br /><br />If you had no idea who Steve was then you didn’t read his book. His book is misleading and erroneous.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-84951802895082717282010-10-01T20:53:52.770-07:002010-10-01T20:53:52.770-07:00Hi,
I am a Seventh-day Adventist and came across ...Hi,<br /><br />I am a Seventh-day Adventist and came across this blog when I was actually looking for some information about Steve Wohlberg, as his name came up and I had no idea who he was. It is difficult however to accept what you say about Steve Wohlberg as fact when the facts listed under your heading "A little bit of history" are clearly wrong. William Miller was not an SDA. He was a baptist preacher who through his preaching the millerite movement started. It was not his intention to start anything separate from his church, in fact he discouraged people from separating them from their own denominations. He died in 1849 a Sunday keeper as opposed to some of the millerite followers who started keeping the seventh day of the week as their worship day. Of these followers the Seventh-day Adventist church arose becoming an organisation in 1963. To say that the officials of the church endorsed a view that was developed years before the church was even organised is to incorrectly present the history of what happened. It was a group of individuals that searched out and come to an agreement on why they believed Miller's prediction had not eventuated, not an organisation or officials from an organisation. In fact at the time these individuals were not observing the Sabbath and did not do so until a few years after the event that you are talking about, so to call them Seventh-day Adventist officials is clearly wrong.eagle wingshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04732939918590498417noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-657546652182163999.post-55051896787305690852010-09-30T12:20:02.587-07:002010-09-30T12:20:02.587-07:00Wohlberg’s belief in Satan’s restraint on a desola...Wohlberg’s belief in Satan’s restraint on a desolate earth has more to do with what was taught to him by his tradition (E G White) than by exegesis. He, and other SDA apologists, have been conditioned to adhere to White’s interpretation of the Bible.<br /><br />He will go to the OT and dig out vague out-of-context references to desolation and try to make them point to Satan’s 1000 yr imprisonment on a bare earth because he has to. Yet so many other OT verses depict a Messianic reign here on earth – one with births and deaths - so we know it’s not the eternal state. <br /><br />Furthermore whenever verses in Revelation refer to the abyss or bottomless pit, the location is always distinct to the earth’s surface – under it, in fact. When I do a word study on “abyss” using the major Greek & Hebrew scholars via BibleWorks I see that they all refer the abyss’s location to a region below the earth’s surface or under the depths of the sea. It couldn’t be any clearer.<br /><br />SDA’s version of Satan’s restraint is illogical and unscriptural: <br /><br />Satan is retrained so that he can’t deceive the nations (Rev 20:3) not just as some sort of “punishment” but if it’s the same people, they were already deceived at the gathering of Armageddon (Rev 16:13-14). And even if he was placed in the same locale as the nations during the Millennium –what difference could it possibly make? They can’t attack the saints and the “Blessed City” because they can’t get to them. At some point Satan has to deceive them anyway so they attack the saints after the Millennium, so what’s the point of imprisonment on a desolate earth?<br /><br />In fact the SDA scenario raises far more questions than I have time to address.<br /><br />I’m sorry you had that experience with Steve.Alf Cengiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08240699973297720789noreply@blogger.com